Some clarifications and thoughts

listBuilderUpdateHello again.

I want to say I am thankful for all the love I got through my email. Thank you guys and gals. It makes me feel that what I had done was really special and appreciated.

I want to point out the email I got from GW was not a Cease and Desist order. It was a polite notice of infringement with which I complied. They didn’t just throw the book at me.

I did brake many infringement rules.

If you send mails (and many of you already have) I would very much like it if they are not negative towards GW but more on the soft “we rally liked that” side. This company has given me personally a lot of joy and I will continue playing. I am actually playing my second 8th edition game in a few hours. I don’t want all of this to become too negative. It’s our hobby and I feel we must protect it even if we don’t like something that’s happening.

Happy Wargaming,



24 comments on “Some clarifications and thoughts

  1. Wes says:

    In light of new information, a request to make an addendum to the letter has been sent.

    Not one to jump to conclusions, but this is GW we are talking here. Glad to hear it wasn’t a full cease and desist.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Kris says:

    This was the only tool I where able to use. There are some of us out there in the world that has problems/handicaps that makes even everyday life harder, so how hard isn’t it going to be for us to handle the complexity of this system now and remember stats etc without flipping through books or papers all the time? I love this hobby, but without this simple but powerfull tool i’m not going to be able to build large or advanced lists anymore. The other options just dosen’t work for me either. I’m at a total loss here, as this is going to/has already started to hurt my access to this hobby (This is not me trying to whine, i’m seriously having problems due to this right now, and are at a total loss).


  3. Victor says:

    I must say, this tool was the only one that seemed to be spot on, and well built. You were fixing problems as soon as they were recognized and it made list building for tournaments manageable. Now I’m going to have to build an excel file to do the EXACT same thing your site did. I would love to let GW know in a friendly, non angry or demeaning way that your site is a road map to what they NEED to put out for us already. Is there any way you know of I can contact them to do just that?

    Thanks for your hard work! It was amazing while it lasted!


  4. Clive says:

    Mate. Sorry to hear this. Your site was great, told everyone who I played with about it. So much effort and such a great tool.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Jordan says:


    Liked by 1 person

  6. Marius_Perdo says:

    A pity, it worked very well. The Indexes are an arse to use as they have kept the points separate from the data sheets for ease of amendment moving forward. Even with digital enhanced editions there is no direct link from the units datasheet to it’s points (wargear aside).

    As for them doing a tool…they did that for AoS as the AoS App (which is clunky), they even introduced the Azyr subscription (which is still clunky), but they also ended up hosting Tony’s Warscroll Builder on the Warhammer Community site and he got donations and had GW images prior to that…they can do these things in parallel with their own apps because they are doing so right now. Because they know that these are better.

    It helps them sell models, anything that enables that is a plus. They design models, rules, and write novels. Designing good apps is the last thing they do, and they are not great at it even when they do it, and never have been (it is not their core business).

    I think that by being reasonable, responding to their IP infringement before it got to Cease and Desist, that the possibility for them hosting as with Warscroll Builder becomes feasible.

    You might even get paid for core code and data file support going forward as a freelancer/contractor.

    In a way your tool became a victim of it’s own success, and once the various gaming sites ran articles it was just too visible.

    Anyway, it would be nice if this all works out for you in the end.

    A effective and intuitive user interface that I am already missing.


  7. Truth says:

    Stop your hesitating and release the source. This always happens, a newbie developer gets afraid of the big company and the source-code dies forever instead of cementing itself into the community -FOREVER-.

    Yes, the “data” will still be a “””problem”””.

    No, that won’t prevent people to sharing and update it privately without a profit.

    You want to permanently help the community, or you want to vanish from 40k like a fart in the wind ?

    Pick one.


    • Has that source of “communication” ever helped you get what you want? If anything it makes me not want to release it so people like you don’t use it.


      • Victor says:

        I would really like for you to give it to GW, either sell it if they’ll buy it, or maybe work out some kind of deal with them. What you had made was amazing and worked beautifully! I’d hate for it to vanish, and if GW is smart they’ll see it as the quality product they need! Either way I believe you did the right thing pulling it down when asked. I wish you luck and still thank you for your amazing product while it lasted.

        Liked by 1 person

      • If they want it I will surely give it to them.


      • Truth says:

        -You choose to disappear like a silent fart. Unwise.

        Thanks for your army builder, I’ve been using it myself and as a learning tool for newbies at my LGS. It’s very effective and I doubt we’ll see a program even half as useful in the coming years. I’ve been one of your few patrons from the start.

        Begone ye mighty fart. You will be missed. I hope you’re not as uselessly paranoid or egoistic in your real-life pursuits, for your own sake.


      • @Truth If you desire a refund I would gladly do it. I would without question refund any of the patreons who desire it. There is not that many of you.


    • Wes says:

      Doing so will get him into more trouble. If you want change, contact GW and be reasonable when you do


      • TheHarrower says:

        He’s not in any trouble at all. It was a polite email to let him know he was infringing on their IP. It wasn’t even a cease and desist notice. Man, people are so paranoid. If he loved doing it for the community and the community loved using it, I can’t understand why he wouldn’t continue to be develop it.


  8. Tyler says:

    Remove the content that was the cause of infringement and put it back up. Make sure you aren’t making money off it. As far as I can tell its fair use.


  9. TheHarrower says:

    I just downloaded BattleScribe yesterday and it’s terrible. I can’t understand how people can use it, let alone give them money. I understand the desire to have images of the units and all of that, but the roster would work just as well if you leave the option to have images for units and factions, but have users upload their own. Same thing with the other artwork. Provide dimensions for it and let people create their own skins.

    They way you put this together made it so simple to use. Even if the rosters aren’t all pretty and such with images, just having the unit selection the way it was makes it a million times better than anything out there. Not getting a C&D means GW wants you to be aware of the issues so you can make changes. I hope you do and don’t decide to quit doing this. Tons of people I know use and love this editor. Thanks for reading.


    • The images are this builder’s last problem. It is not that hard to ask the community for images. We will soon be overflowing with images that are not GW’s property. But the names of races, points costs and so on… that’s the hard part.


      • TheHarrower says:

        You can’t copyright statistics so stats aren’t a problem. Names of races and such are trademarked and were changed when 8th Edition was released so that is certainly an issue. As well as marketing something to be compatible with someone else’s IP for profit. I would use the older 7th edition names for the armies, remove the link to Patreon, and re-release it.


  10. Kurvan says:

    What if you made another one, with no pictures, and change the names? You could do something like “Flying fighting armored good guys” instead of Space marines assault quad or “Angry red armored bad guys” instead of berzerkrs or “stealthy green space elfs” instead of striking scorpions. Everybody who know the game would know what we are talking about, without doing anything agains their IP


    • On the one hand that would be a lot of work. On the other no one will use it. And if GW do their own builder it will be empty work.


      • TheHarrower says:

        GWs builder is most likely going to be like the one for AoS. Meaning it’ll be subpar and not everyone will want to use it. No one cares about unit images. All people want is something that let’s them easily put a list together. Would you consider selling the code for this?


      • I cannot sell it without infringing the policy. The AoS builder is done by another user. If GW want something like that they will probably ask for mine. Otherwise they have to do it themselves and getting a firm to do it will not be cheap. If they do it themselves it will probably be much better than the AoS builder.


  11. Eliot Hawkins says:

    How would someone get their hands on the code you used? Or is it now in the internet void? Your army builder was the only one that really worked for me, and I’m sad I didn’t see this until now.


    • Hi Eliot. The code is already outdated. Without support it is dying little by little. I have promised not to distribute it to GW, but it’s all but useless now. As more and more actual codices come out it will be worthless. GW will be adding their own list builder soon (probably). I suggest you hold your breath for that one and use either Excel or Battle Scribe until it happens.


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